AI vs human

Mr. Spock · **Posted:** August 27th, 2008, 3:04 pm

http://battlezone1.freeforums.org/post85.html#p85

Jòñßlûñd ™ wrote:

(Quoting Blunt Force Trauma - BzC 04 Sep 2006)

Blunt Force Trauma wrote:

I would certainly like to experience/fight 3 or 4 AI tanks fight like a human. The closest I've seen is TRO on hard. And that is still really no match.

AI doesn't have fundamental code strategies such as cross fire, screening off on an enemy tank in the wrong orientation, basic cover (hills, walls, buildings), knowing they're almost out of ammo, using one shot on a single bar black smoker to save ammo etc, etc.

Most of what you are saying here is correct. AI are programmed to act the way they do, they dont move if you don't tell em to move. The human player is given the challenge of getting the best out of available vehicles and weapons..

These screenies show you blown out of tank by 4 AI tanks upgradet with 1 SP each:

BFT used dual SP's + thumper and it was him who attacked the AI. In 4 attempts BFT took out 4 or 5 tanks out of 16 possible. All four attempts endet with BFT as screenies show. I did not fire a shot.
Another attempt was BFT vs 4 stocktanks. They got BFT smoking and out of ammo before all died. But again, it was only a few stock AI vs players dual SP's/thumper

Blunt Force Trauma wrote:

Yes I think there's a big differance when a human meets a bunch of non-directed AI vs when the opponent tells them to attack one ship (the human's).

I originally thought I would have a better chance of fighting on a flat surface to provide ME more room to move in and out of the pack, but after the fights, I discovered the AI has the advantage since they only have to fire in the X plane.

Also, when the AI attacked they DID miss roughly 30-60% of their shots, but with 4 or more tanks coming, PLUS being upgraded, their aim doesn't have to be accurate, as the wide spread of fire from four tanks amounts to one tank hitting with every shot, BUT taking 1/4 (the denominator being how many tanks you're fighting) the damage even if the human hits with 100% accuracy. A hilly terrain might improve the human's chances a bit, since it would provide some cover and offer a bit of difficult manuvering for the AI code.

That was on 04 Sep 2006. Let's check how's BFT's story changed 2 years later, on 28 Aug 2008.

Blunt Force Trauma wrote:

I remember, a couple years ago Jon Blund challenged me to take on his AI BDogs in a strat map. I had 2 SPs in a BDog Grizz. His AI was stock. As long as I was able to fire. . . and occasionally refill with ammo and get a repair, I was pretty much able to hold back a continuous group of 8 or 9. Trouble was, it was very difficult to get the ammo and repair because of the entanglement of ships and them shooting the repairs/ammo trying to get to me. But suffice it to say, a group of 3 or 4 stock cannon wielding AI ships should be no match even for the most basic beginner with BZ.

ROFL

Mr. Spock · **Posted:** September 4th, 2008, 5:55 pm

Mr Spock wrote:

i challange anyone who says that ai is stupid to a strat game. i will start in a ram and if i get ejected i will enter only a scav. my "stupid" ai will do the job. i'll beat the "stupid" out of anyone. any takers?

grinder took the challenge... i know he's not the best example but still...
al was the witness.... results?

grinder's first attack

trying to run grinder off

"dumb" ai finishing grinder's rec

5th daywrecker ended the game

Grinder · **Posted:** September 4th, 2008, 6:57 pm

This was a warmup game - 1st of the morning. I accepted spocks challenge anyhow and he used a ram to make a point that the ai is formidable. He collected scrap better than I did and used tactics to keep me guessing, (moving his factory) and leaving mines there. The map was battle by the sea. 1 spectator. When I attacked with my lone bdog grizz w/sp's he had already accumulated many tanks and apc's. When my tank blew, a whole flock of tanks followed me around his third of the map. I bounced off the walls and kept going round and round 3 times i think then decided to try and snipe. 3 tanks came around a hill and i sniped one of them and got in and began shooting his silo there. Had it been a real player in a tank I might have made it half way around once while running. I went back to my base and tried to recover only to make 3 apc's to attack one last time with. I didn't accumulate enough scrap to mount an effective attack. After he tried with minelayers and day wreakers and I was down to my last player and last shot, I peeked around the corner and his gun tower got me finishing the game. It was fun and I enjoyed it even though I lost.

CerberusAlpha09 · **Posted:** November 26th, 2008, 6:41 pm

If anyone told me that AI's were dumb, I would answer:
Fight the Furies on Titan on HARD and see how many you can kill before they slaughter you. Dude, even on MED they were owning my "carefully" constructed defenses (truth be told, I was on panic mode, had Hoppers and tanks coming at me from all directions). And when I finally got to the point where I could attack their base, they got a spawn of something like 8 hoppers and four tanks. Got slaughtered. Makes me wonder if you can make Furies on the editor...

But yeah, never underestimate the AI. I did that a lot, and they still can kill me if I'm not careful. Most humans think that they can take out 4-5 other tanks even if they are by themselves, but I will say from my limited experience that it is much easier said than done. The "Super Czars" as I like to call them, on Total Destruction, the second Europa mission, those are the ones with Flash Cannons and SP-Stabbers. Dude, I ran into something like 6 of them, and I made the mistake of engaging instead of running. Got sodamized.

Hehe, again the noob with his campaign stories, but they are good lessons to use online...

HyperFighter · **Posted:** April 1st, 2009, 9:12 pm

I don't question the power of the AI. Though I would like to see them in action as well.

I accept your challenge Spock.

This is gonna be fun.

CerberusAlpha09 · **Posted:** April 2nd, 2009, 1:37 am

Looks like I'm not crazy!

Mr. Spock · **Posted:** April 9th, 2009, 8:44 am

HyperFighter wrote:

I don't question the power of the AI. Though I would like to see them in action as well.

I accept your challenge Spock.

This is gonna be fun.

Hyper won. Map was Battle By the Sea and I was in Captain. But Hyper isn't a good example for this cause he knows AI isn't stupid and, of course, he knows how to use it. This is for eternal strat noobs (Grinder) and silly DM'ers (BFT) who think they are better than 8-9 AI's. :lol:

My SS's and a witness show Grinder humiliated in a AI vs human strat, while Jon Blund's SS's show BFT humiliated by 4-5 AI tanks. AI pwns!

Firestorm29 · **Joined:** February 3rd, 2009, 10:09 am **Posts:** 150

This human vs AI challenge, is it just one human ship vs 4 AIs, or is the human allowed to have some wingmen? Personally myself, I'd find 1 vs 4 anything to be pretty impossible in BZ.

CerberusAlpha09 · **Posted:** April 9th, 2009, 6:45 pm

1 v 4 is pretty easy in bz if you are fighting stock enemies with a souped up unit. It's just a matter of using their own tendencies against them. But it is far from impossible.

HyperFighter · **Posted:** April 9th, 2009, 8:15 pm

ok then Cerby, how do you think you would've done in such a match. Spock and I were even for a good while. It wasn't until I moved my rec and factory for heavy reinforcements did the battle led to my favor. It was, for the most part, a good, even, and intense match. All those pilots, all those explosions. We threw a lot of stuff at each other. Howies, APCs, tanks, fighters, minelayers, even a Golem was used in the malay. It was when my APCs and tanks breached his defensive line, his factory and most of his army was gone, his utility was scrap, and he lost his tank and one life was he beaten. I didn't even get to waste his recycler.

CerberusAlpha09 · **Posted:** April 10th, 2009, 8:53 pm

I honestly don't know, cause my dog-fighting skills have collapsed from lack of playing. Also, I don't get to go online cause of firewall issues. But if you don't think I can do it, when I get my new comp, I will be more than happy to take the challenge.

HyperFighter · **Posted:** April 19th, 2009, 11:31 pm

I gave Greg the AI challenge today. The kid still has quite a bit to learn about attacking.

HyperFighter · **Posted:** July 28th, 2009, 7:45 pm

Henny told me that AI was stupid and he could take on 6-7 AI tanks.

1st attempt was that I charged his base with 7 AI tanks(I was in Ram). His distracting scavs and other units allowed him victory.

2nd: Was an AI challenge, I only used AI and gave him a nice battle. Here's the only screenie that survived.

He admitted defeat, but still concluded he wasn't a good stratter(forgot how to build things other than scavs, weapons, and walkers)
and thus he said the strat results were moot. :lol:

So we had one last challenge, only difference was that it was away from both bases. Here's what happened.

He then says if only it was on Colli, or Europa, that he would've done much better. He still thinks AI is mindless

.Then it goes into a DM/strat arguement. And I show him the link to this topic.

HennySirDmKingclaim wrote:

I forgot how to make anything besides weapons and walkers.

Told him he should redo Single Player as refresher, but said strat was too boring. :lol:

I guess the magger DM life style was too strong in him...finding to true big game too boring.

CerberusAlpha09 · **Posted:** July 29th, 2009, 6:53 am

Why does everyone underestimate the power of the AI... They should go and fight the furies again... that will give you a lesson in humility. Personally, I do agree, the AI can be retarded, but in a one vs one fight, of course you will beat the AI (unless your skills are as bad as mine were when I started again). The main problem with the AI is that is sprays and never hits dead on. One on one, that is suicide. But the AI was programmed to fight en masse, so that spraying that is dumb in 1 v 1 becomes deadly when there are multiple enemies. Dodging becomes a nightmare, and you get hit so much that you red flash like nuts, and next thing you know, you are ejected. Never underestimate the AI (even if they are in fighters or scouts... that is actually worse, cause of the constant repeating hits *shudders*)...

furykiller · **Posted:** November 4th, 2009, 9:13 am

i agree with all comments about the furies on titan. NSDF mission 15 is (in my opinion) the hardest of SP missions in the original game. and the mode makes a HUGE difference.

however, i do know that AI can be quite retarded. rarely using the full speed, unable to jump off cliffs, gets stuck in random places, runs away instead of standing ground, ect. if its on easy mode and in SINGLE PLAYER, i could take AI units all day(as long as it wasnt like walkers). naturally, most of this discussion revolves around multi-player and medium or hard mode. in which AI units are not to be trifled with. first, hard mode will make sure that you run out of amo after taking out about two of them. and second, in mutliplayer it doesnt matter how stupid they are, cuz theres bound to be a really smart human commanding them

to back up this point, if i upgrade my units, on SP hard mode i can still massacre the AI units of the comp because they dont have a human controller. mine do. i have beaten the SP NSDF campaign w/o loosing a man

but like the experienced players have said, AI can and will destroy you. dont ever be careless. sheer numbers will often win any battle

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