Battlezone 1

Well last night, I ran into this player who was talking about "death scrap", and I was wondering what the heck is was. When I played against this guy, on Biometal Run 1.5 to say the least, he definitely knows how to build a monster attack wave. About 2~5 minutes apart from each wave I experienced:

Wave 1: Mostly Tanks and a Light Tank, all modified to fire chains expect the Light Tank. I held this one off easy.
Wave 2: All Tanks, the 10 AI tanks were modded with Pop Guns and he was sporting Twin SP tank. I held this one off, but started
running into troubles as he was going out of his way to kill pilots
Wave 3: Same as Wave 2, he retreated after running out of ammo I think, I took out most the army he had.
Wave 4: Same thing again. I was pretty much bashed back into my base after this Tsunami thanks to him and his tanks constantly raping my pop.
Wave 5: He through some stock bombers into the mix and I think I had lost my last life from this attack.

The thing that got me wasn't the size of the attacks, I've tank blitzkrieged before, but the fact of how often these attacks were, including the fact that I was taking out atleast 3 scavs, constructors and random buildings, between attacks, he had to had have an ungodly amount of scrap to fund each attack.

I suspected a hack so I called him out on it when he pretty much clammed up(His only words were "I thionk") when I asked him about how he could support such an attack. I'm 70% sure that he either had some sort of scrap hack (OH gee, hi GenX), that he was using this "death scrap" glitch(?) which is supposed to cause an infinite scrap amount, or the third option which was that getting swarmed too much by these intense attack waves that it screwed with my head, plus the low pilot count, caused me to think he was hitting me more often than he actually did. The silence he gave is helping me think the third option is probably not the case...

So I ask, is it feasible to even be able to foot the bill to attack with this frequency with what his army was sporting? Or did he actually some sort of hack. XANA was there too, so I think he could help show if it was just me getting attacked and attacking too much, or he really did hit that hard, that often.

I'm not 100% sure on this, since I was only attacked once (at the end, and by him), but I think that he was using some sort of hack (possibly infintie scrap hack, and/or "death scrap" cheat, whatever that is).
He had a single ship with a rocket somewhere in his huge fleet. His main fleet on my base was tanks galore!

I did not attack Firestorm once, cause I never really found where he was, only just a couple small-importance silos and supplies.
(Firestrom even said something like "When are you going to come out of your base?")\
Only he attacked Firestorm, I never attacked his base at all.

He (not Firestorm, the other guy) let up attacking me very soon and withdrawed a safe distance from base (or what was left) cause I think he knew he won since I was not doing anything more (I provided no resistance after he took out a single ship I sent with what little scrap I had).

I think that he did attack very often, cause I saw a battle go on between the two and there were explosions all over on both sides (I said "nice battle" then), cause I was watching from a safe distance.
He did not let up, it seems, on Firestorm since I saw 'killed' and 'destroyed' messages like crazy.

Grey scrap (or how you call it death scrap) is a game bug and usage of it is considered cheating. It's a minor offence, but still not allowed. Pro stratters never use it. It's a "weapon" of noobs and cheats.

It appears when one player abandons the game and leaves his scrap (scrap from his vehicles/buildings) on the floor. His undestroyed vehicles/buildings won't create new scrap, only the scrap that was already on the floor becomes grey (changes color).

There are 3 problems with that scrap; 1. AI scavengers are not able to collect it, they ignore it, like it isn't there. However, human can enter a scav and collect that scrap like normal scrap.
Now we are getting to the 2. problem about it... grey scrap can't be removed from the map, you can keep collecting it over and over, it's actually an endless scrap.
3. problem about it is; in a sync off strat, you may join after gray scrap already appeared, then you won't see it at all. It will be visable only to the players who were in the game when it happened.

That's why you thought it's a scrap hack, cause basically that's what grey scrap is. Of course, if you played Genx aka Genghis Khan, he didn't bother to get into his scav, he just hacked his units to cost 0 scrap.

Ah, thanks for the explanation Spock.

So, it seems either way he (I forgot the name of the guy, maybe Firestorm remembers) was using infinite scrap anyhow.
Thing is, it seems to lead more towards the "hacked units to cost 0" explanation, since that was a fresh game and the only players ever to enter the game were us 3 players (Me, Firestorm, and Whatever-his-name-is).

Indeed I do remember his name, because I thought it was cool and understood the reference. I haven't divulged it as of yet because I could maybe see if it he had used the one side that was unoccupied, maybe he might have been able to afford it, and as with the constant attacks, I started losing ground and the scrap generated from the clashes. Which was why I asked if it was feasible that one could use such attacks so quickly.

But, when he first attacked you, he had a fully upgraded fleet right?

How could he afford that when he wasn't making scrap, and that there was not nearly enough scrap to make that possible by just using the scrap available, and that it would take an insane amount by any record to make that possible?

The first attack maybe, if you happen to expand out very quickly, you might be able to do it if you forgo all defenses. His first attack could be doable if you forgo defense and focus on a heavy rush. It was the subsequent 10 tanks + poppers + his 2x SP + all the scavs, constructors and silos lost created in a extremely short period of time that caused me to throw up a red flag. Considering how I didn't have control of alot of the map, nor did you (I think), he could have gathered that much scrap easy. Gathering 100 scrap in a 800 scrap map is pretty easy, for me anyways. Gathering it, building an upgraded and full tank attack force and attacking in two minutes waves, NOW that's very questionable.

Well that is true.

I had not much control of the map, just my small base and that ring of turrets around my howitzer, which I was using to try and attack you from afar in that match you guys were having about 200m away.
I could see the explosions and weaponsfire from my safe distance.
It looked pretty cool from where i was observing....

Anyway, if he did have control of the single side of the map he had, he would have atleast 266.6 scrap available to him(the .6 is a repeating decimal, so he would have almost exactly 267 scrap to work with).

The equation I used to figure that was 800 / 3, which comes out to be 266.6666666...., which would make his huge attack feasible if he were able to ensure a stready stream of scavengers getting in and out to his silos with no interruptions.

This however, did not happen. I knew I took out atleast three or so of his scrap silos and took out over 10 scavs over the course of of the game. I'm pretty sure I was putting a decent dent into his scrap gathering. So the question remains of how he could gather that scrap that quickly, if it is even possible. His attacks pretty much showed build delay and nothing more.

[quote=XANA] I could see the explosions and weaponsfire from my safe distance.
It looked pretty cool from where i was observing....[/quote]

Looking back, if my laptop could handle FRAPS recording, the first few waves would have been upload worthy. Pure chaos and absolute mayhem that would make a pure DMer green with envy. I probably could have held him off longer if I didn't have to keep on rebuilding my factory to replace lost pilots. He went out of his way to totally obliterate any pilots, which probably would explain the popper army.

I was talking with Stratking bout the guy in this post, and it seemed to confirm what I though, the guy's a straight up tank rusher. I'm pretty sure the match was legit, and probably had those areas covered pretty fast, the guy's name is Tesla-Trooper. Seems like he's spanish.

Can't say I'm not looking forward to trying my hand against him against one of these days, I think I maybe able to get around his tank rush next time if I build and prepare for it.

(Nikola) Tesla is from Croatia, but Tesla-Trooper is from Argentina.

You guys shouldn't jump so fast on a conclusion that someone is hacking scrap or cheating with grey scrap, just because he's a fast collector/builder. I felt that accusation on my own skin, more times than I want to remember.

But why was he talking about "death scrap" if there was no grey scrap in the game?

I was not jumping to conclusions in my posts that I was saying Tesla-Trooper was cheating, I was simply saying that that he could have been cheating to make such an army was the most logically possible choice out of the three.

It could have been he was not cheating and was actually using his 266.6666....7 scrap to make such an army.
It seems believeable that since he had all that scrap to himself that it was entirely possible for such an army to be made.

The third choice, "death" scrap, or grey scrap, was also believeable as I do remember seeing some scrap that, when pointed at by the reticule, had a grey colored line, not white as is normal scrap.
My scavs were also reporting no scrap found even though that there was a huge amount of scrap where that battle was, so much that it must have been like 1/3 of the scrap in the map total.

You have to decide, was it fresh game, with just the 3 of you, or not? You can't see grey scrap unless someone leaves it "for" you.

As for jumping to conclusions, this wasn't posted in Dark side of Bz, but it wasn't posted in Warstories either.

And there's no such thing as 0.7 scrap.

Yes it was a fresh game.
I don't know or think what I saw was grey scrap, all I was saying was that the scrap I did find had a different reticule line color than normal (probably graphics darker than normal maybe).

It was not 0.7 scrap, I was saying that if he had the whole side to himself then he would have 266.66666.....7 scrap
(the other dots mean it repeats over and over).
I'm sorry I was not clear that the extra dots leading off of the many 6's meant that the 6's repeated)
Take 800 (total amount of scrap possible in the map) divided by 3 (number of players) and you will get the answer I said above more than 3 times.

Note how I ask if it was feasible to do such a thing and didn't post his name first, which after breaking it down, it does seem to be it was legit. In all the games I've ever played past and present, I never got slammed so hard by a tank rush, much less upgraded with poppers. Next time, I just need to be more prepared for such a move if he tries it again. I think I'm starting to pick up on some "warning signs" for when a rusher is in works.