Battlezone 1

Oh ya, i'm obviously not a casual player when i play this game THE MOST. and i ented a Strat Tournament.

He was in satellite view. Cursor around his ship was the tipoff.

He said "got you" and sat went off. Stream of tanks followed my unit. They were ordered to attack me, or else they just decided to all follow me from over a hill 300 meters away.

"Yeah, you're a modder"

Nailed it. You are very good at making generalizations out of one sentence. I should respond by saying "Yeah, you're a psychic," but that would seem out of place.

The tank AI was to take a few hits and attempt a dodge. That attempted dodge is what lowers their guard. And according to my tag under my name, Bz2 player, I suppose I don't know how to mod. If it said BZ modder, than yes, you would be right.

The "floppy fishtail" is their dodge, where they try to get around you by lightly careening to the side. The only thing that would stop 4 tanks from taking me is if they were armed with POP or I ran out of ammo. Range is key. At that 150 range, predicting AI motion is fairly accurate, while them predicting your movements is not as powerful. The word is wobble kill, which is to alternate left and right as they lead your target. Note this is 150 meters out so that they have a long distance to lead, but may try to close in regardless.

This thread is starting to lose focus though and has gone too far off topic...maybe it should float to the bottom. My arguments BZ1 vs BZ2 have been made, and there is and will never be a winner. We all play what we like to play, and the point of this thread was to discuss the pros and cons of each. I think I've done that quite fairly in some of my way-too-long posts. Happy zoning!

Which is a result of poorly commanded AI, either on hunt, just sitting somewhere with no orders and encountering an enemy, or being told to attack a non-static unit.

EDIT:
Check out some videos of single player mode. I am not claiming to be the greatest player, but just watch how I attack effectively using the AI. Others posted videos there too, but they span several pages.

Start with NSDF #5 Escape From Mars. That's where the offense begins. Missions before that one are mostly defense.

My biggest frustration with BZ2 AI is that tanks do not obey orders to disengage. You say "follow me" and if attacked, they will aggresively go for the hunt, sometimes entering in enemy territory where they are lured and destroyed.
So in single player I always keep them behind me. Am I missing something?

Not using endless armies in BZII?? As far as I know, there is no cap to how many units you may have. So yes, you are able to use endless amounts of armies. BZII is really just a battle over who controls the most scrap pools more than it is having conflicts with the enemy base. BZI, you don't go to any scrap "pools," just temporary scrap areas. The only thing remotely close to a scrap "pool" in BZI are the outposts people build to pre-stage attacks. Comparing the scrap systems used in the games is moot, as they are an entirely different concept.

Those "3-4 out of 7-8" tanks you killed were probably busy fighting different units, and you swooped in and flanked them.

If I want my offensive units to disengage (in BZ1), I first select them and order them to a position. This makes them stop firing and move away from their targets. Then, I head away from them and their targets a good distance and re-issue the follow command. Since I am far from them, they will play "catch-up" and join me, ignoring all targets on the way. Tank AI on follow will aggressively attack as long as the unit they are following is close by. When that is no longer the case, they can be made to disengage.

[quote="Mr. Spock"but it is well known that CC is dumbed-down version of BZ. Just pick your words more carefully when expressing subjective thoughts, wrapped as "facts".[/quote]


This is completly false. I think if i were to being bz2 players to bz1, they would get very good very quickly,
Bz2 is harder than bz1.

Roboto seems nice, but unaware of BZ1 AI possibilities. When we meet, I'm willing too give him a tour. On the other hand, Dominant is angry, disrespectful and with bad home manners. No wonder he remained an average stratter. Pro level requires something extra. Hopefully he does better in BZ2.

BZ is difficult at first for anyone playing because it's a strat/FPS genre.

The only reason I caught on to BZII so quickly is because of how BZI was set up. BZII is more complicated only because the game engine allows more abilities, as seen with unit grouping (even though BZ1 can), weapon loadouts, and base-building hierarchy. BZ1 was already ahead of its time, but you can say that about any game breaking game...then call the original obsolete after a new version of it is released.

Well I'll bite.

I know the possibilities of BZ1 AI. If asked to argue for them, I will. I will always take the counterargument, since what fun is agreeing?

My task force includes usually 2 tanks and 2 bombers at the very least. This group is enough to draw fire from me as I work on defenses and the bombers to work the recy. Anywhere I go, I'll usually have 2 tanks with me with the rest sitting at home guarding the base until needed, or waiting at a NAV as a staging point. The extra firepower against stationary objects is invaluable. When you send a few ships around the back of the base to flank them, the player can be distracted while you bring some turrets to his perimeter, hopefully blocking escape routes.

APCs make for good insertion strikes against noncritical targets, such as field silos and maybe supply bunkers, since you only have to order one to attack. Fire and forget.

Tanks, when ordered to attack the opposite player, make him have to concentrate on more than one target, so you can make quick work of him, all the while sending some bombers in to waste S-Powers or production units. I will send turrets and tanks to NAV beacons as the assault continues, only to build pressure on them.

Storming in a tight base with many many offensive units can sometimes be a bad idea, corner pocket being an example, since they like to line up or corner tightly. If flooding their base with units is the goal of the attack run, then that is fine, as long as you make sure they cannot mop up any of the scrap while the battle is in progress. Smaller groups of well placed AI units tend to work better than a mob anyhow, especially with bombers. Bombers may inadvertantly eat each other on the way in, but 2-3 of them work well together.

I know the values of BZ1 AI and of course I use them. To not would be a mistake, because if I was ever destroyed and in the air, my base would be a big fat target on the ground, ready to be trumped. I was just put on the opposite stance due to the series of posts before it. You said I was unaware of their possibility, so I had to counteract that statement. I was on the college debate team, by the way, so it runs in my blood

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Those huge armies in BZ2 are possible, yes, but impractical in all but single player and MPI. Nothing will stop 20 rampaging SP tanks in single player, but being allowed to accumulate that much scrap in a strat is unlikely, since pools are under constant attack. Keeping 3 average players in a tank for very long can be costly enough!

(Quotes brought from another thread, because my reply doesn't belong there.)


No, don't do that. Just try to rephrase your next (strategy) thought, instead basing your conclusions on your strat ignorance. You have to open yourself for learning, because it is obvious that you have a lot of gaps to fill.
Check Comstar's posts, he compared BZ1 and BZ2 without spitting on the things he doesn't understand.


Due being scrap collectors/holders, scavs are #1 unit for taking down.
Golem or any other unit won't attack silo, or any other building except the gun tower, on its own.


Each unit in BZ is good for one thing and bad for something else, that's the beauty of it. Knowing how each unit reacts in a specific situation is what differs pros from noobs. Averages, like Dominant, know only some of it, they are still learning, still trying to master the game after 12 years of playing. Let's be honest, FPS strategy is not for everybody.

You should say "I don't find Sasquatch useful" or ask "how to make Sasquatch useful?". Declaring it "sad" just because you don't know how to use it properly, is wrong. That's why you have rank "Bz2 player", in fear that a bigger noob than you will read your sas-comment and decide not to use it anymore. It is not something derogatory, it is for the protection of the readers. Someone ranked "stratter" is not supposed to say something like that. Noob stratter yes, but since you came from Bz2 and praise it, I find your rank fitting.


That is doable, so you should tell it to Ken.

I can see how easy it is for a BZ1 player to come in to BZ2 and think: "WHAT! SO MUCH SCRAP!!!?!" Especially if you're playing single player or MPI.

However, the fact is that multiplayer strat at a high level (or even a decent one), scrap simply isn't nearly that available. The fight is for the scrap pools, and it's a constant give-and-take. Teams are constantly taking and losing pools.

The position of opening dogfights matters so much: if it's inside someone's base, then they get the scrap dropped by when the ships die. Scrap dropped from ships matters. It's often what decides the game.

Just building your base and keeping everyone in ships sucks up all of your scrap. Forget about AI: they're expensive and human players would just kill them anyway.

I'll be honest, Bz2 takes more skill to play than bz1.
But this is a bz1 forum, your bound to get some 'bias' views.

You already said that few times, but you never explained it or confirmed it. If you don't know how to discuss things, don't. Take a look at 4m4z1ng's posts and learn how to post on a debate topic.

Which game is better is not questionable, we have critics and 12 years experience. Bz3 was never made because Bz2 was a big failure, and that's why most stayed in Bz1. What you think is something else. No need to repeat your dumb thought over and over to make it true. It's a subjective lie. Quit the crap.

Seeing how you got disqualifed from the strat tourney tells me you still have a lot of things to learn. Maybe you are missing an aspect or two?

Chocolate or lemonade. What is best? It is up to everyone to decide.
There will be no agreement on this and this is why you have lemonade and chocolate for sale.

I have posted a comparison between BZ1 and BZ2 based on my experience, and clarifying that I have not finished BZ2 yet. Given what I know I like BZ1 more, but that's me. It is best for me, but as I said, I have not yet finished the game. There should not be disagreement, since chocolate and lemonade are both valid options for different people and one does not exclude the other.

Lemonade or chocolate. It would be senseless to engage in the debate of "to be or not to be".
We can compare features, but judging what's best belongs to the realm of subjective things.

BTW: I am having problems when posting with Firefox. Any ideas?