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 Post subject: BZ 1.5 is just too aimbot to enjoy
PostPosted: August 3rd, 2017, 10:03 pm 

Joined: August 3rd, 2017, 9:50 pm
Posts: 3
I've made a lot of Quake mods in my time, including bots (both SP games and emulating MP game). Making an aimbot is the easiest thing in the world. You call the routine that checks the entity LOS, if it can hit the player you hit the player.

BZ 1.5 has done that.

The turret speed has been upped so you can't strafe them, big change. But one I'm okay with - you can mortar them. And okay if you get swamped and outnumbered by opponent fighters perhaps you shouldn't realistically stand a chance. The circle strafe - for me at least - isn't working. A circle strafe just means you lose your papertissue armour.

But it just becomes ridiculous to add aimbot to the mix. If you are hiding behind a building and two enemy fighters are fighting two of yours, peeking out means the AI stops attacking your units and focus-fire primarily onto the PC. This is absolutely happening in my BZ build but looking through Spork's Enhanced playthroughs is NOT happening on his.

Anyway, I thought it must me just me. But I've looked around in other forums and it seems a lot of people - including others who finished the original game - are finding the same things. I don't mind having to use some new tactics - not being able to out MG a turret but being forced to use mortars is a good example of improvement - and I guess if you guys focus on MP then these things might not apply to you.

But for someone primarily focused on SP it tarnishes - to the point of ruination - an otherwise fantastic labour of love.


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 Post subject: Re: BZ 1.5 is just too aimbot to enjoy
PostPosted: August 4th, 2017, 12:18 pm 

Joined: August 3rd, 2017, 9:50 pm
Posts: 3
Does anyone have a recommendation for a lightweight free game-capture, then I could document it.

For example I have a save game. Two Soviet fighters are on approach vector. I can send out two wingmen to fight them. As they are being shot to bits by them they will ignore them and attack me, with unerringly accurately, even though I'm much further away and not attacking them.

That is the definition of an Aimbot, and it is not game design to be proud of.


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 Post subject: Re: BZ 1.5 is just too aimbot to enjoy
PostPosted: August 5th, 2017, 1:50 pm 
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Joined: June 16th, 2009, 6:07 pm
Posts: 1810
Location: CCA Main Base, Titan
If you have Windows 10, you should be able to record BZ with the Game Bar:

Record game clips with Game DVR on Windows 10


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 Post subject: Re: BZ 1.5 is just too aimbot to enjoy
PostPosted: August 6th, 2017, 2:26 am 

Joined: August 3rd, 2017, 9:50 pm
Posts: 3
Win 8.1


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 Post subject: Re: BZ 1.5 is just too aimbot to enjoy
PostPosted: August 8th, 2017, 10:01 pm 
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Joined: June 1st, 2008, 9:16 pm
Posts: 7327
Location: Luna, Phobos
Darth__KEK wrote:
I've made a lot of Quake mods in my time, including bots (both SP games and emulating MP game). Making an aimbot is the easiest thing in the world. You call the routine that checks the entity LOS, if it can hit the player you hit the player.

BZ 1.5 has done that.

The turret speed has been upped so you can't strafe them, big change. But one I'm okay with - you can mortar them. And okay if you get swamped and outnumbered by opponent fighters perhaps you shouldn't realistically stand a chance. The circle strafe - for me at least - isn't working. A circle strafe just means you lose your papertissue armour.

But it just becomes ridiculous to add aimbot to the mix. If you are hiding behind a building and two enemy fighters are fighting two of yours, peeking out means the AI stops attacking your units and focus-fire primarily onto the PC. This is absolutely happening in my BZ build but looking through Spork's Enhanced playthroughs is NOT happening on his.

Anyway, I thought it must me just me. But I've looked around in other forums and it seems a lot of people - including others who finished the original game - are finding the same things. I don't mind having to use some new tactics - not being able to out MG a turret but being forced to use mortars is a good example of improvement - and I guess if you guys focus on MP then these things might not apply to you.

But for someone primarily focused on SP it tarnishes - to the point of ruination - an otherwise fantastic labour of love.
The strategy turrets were changed to turn faster (Death Match turrets could already do this) partly because the turrets were unable to properly fight the improved tank AI which would out-strafe them every time, and partly because they needed to pose a better threat to the player.

The "Aimbot" (Or more specifically, the AI's aiming code) doesn't really help in a game where bullet travel for most weapons is not instantaneous. The only weapons in the game that can't be dodged are the long range blast cannon (300m range!) and the short range flash cannon (only 90m range). The sniper rifle is fast, but not instant. It has a travel time of one-half second to go 500m, so moving unpredictably and erratically can make you difficult to snipe. This mostly applies to MP with other players, but I thought I'd mention it anyway.

If you're moving left and an AI tank shoots an SP-Stabber at you, you can change direction by stopping, steering, or moving right and the tank's shot will miss. Shots CAN be dodged, and if you use a varied movement pattern for yourself while shooting them, you can destroy them fairly easily, at least in a 1 on 1 fight.

You also mentioned my playthroughs. I've got several playthroughs on my YouTube channel of BZ. The first was a regular playthrough of 1.5... but later on, I cleared 1.5 without shooting:
NSDF campaign: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... JLBWLFyP2X
Yes, even the CCA missions can be cleared without shooting: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... RmGPUIXKoV

Which enemy the AI focuses on depends on which one they spot first. There most certainly are times when the AI goes directly after the player, but that can easily be countered with a few friendlies and/or evasive maneuvers.

The 3rd playthrough is Battlezone 98 Redux, the one you were likely referring to when you said "enhanced" playthrough:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... w9BxAj_bMG
I've also got a playthrough of the Redux version of The Red Odyssey:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... KTcGZnE9Q5
This one was done live on Twitch using saves and then later heavily edited to be MUCH shorter, cutting out the failing and game loading. :mrgreen:

So no matter which version you play, no matter which campaign you play, no matter which mission it is, there is a path to victory, often multiple paths. Good luck and have fun!


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