Battlezone 1

Strat is not like silly DM, it is a serious game in which people invest a lot of time, so certain rules need to be followed:

1. No rejoining.
2. No allying if all others didn't agree on it.
3. In 1on1 strat, 2 players can agree additional rules before the game, like "no splinters".
4. No scrapmaking is kinda personal rule of mine, but I see more and more stratters accepting it. Serious stratter shouldn't do it and therefore it's not allowed in my games. You will get a warning when I see you doing it, and if you continue doing it I will slap you like you have never been slapped before. I noticed scrapmaking is connected with rejoining, no wonder...



5. No spawning is a moral rule. All good stratters know that they should guard their spawn. If a good guy or a noob forgets about it, I won't spawn them (if I see them running back home), but bad guys will see my miners on their spawn point.

"Build time", "No blasting" and "No rushing" are made up rules, ignore them. If you play against blaster use a lot of units against him, he's low on ammo. If you play against rusher, start with Armory or Scout and wait for him at home. Adapting is part of strategy.

I think we should have a rule that we should not run into the opponents buildings, .e.g such as driving into the nsdfs recycler

You are right, but that can only be a moral rule, cause it's hard to control it and sometimes you are not sure did it happen or not. If Jens Stratking was in the game, then it for sure happened , but few times I saw AI doing it.

When you see a rec diver you have to undeploy your recy and keep sending it from nav to nav. Like that diver will fall out and your units will be able to shoot the (right) target. If you have a minefiled near, sending recy there (behind it) is not a bad idea. "Sir Straking's ship destroyed" "Sir Stratking killed" will appear on the screen soon.

LOL we all had our experiences with Sir Stratking. Our last 1 vs 1 strat game involved me sniping him in his ship, then me running him over after he wiped out my base (he was in a wide open space just walking back home...he was asking for it!). Then he said he won because I was scared

Personally I act like a sneaky ninja when I am on foot, I guess others take a more open approach

Mr. Spock, tell detaily about scrapmaking, especially about Constructor recycling. What do you mean?
For example, I lose almost all my offensive on an opponent base and I should recycle something to get a little scrap for me...

"No splinters" - good rule

You can't earn scrap with recycling your units. They all cost more to produce.

Scrapmaking is a loophole allowing you to shoot your own units to get more scrap. That's why it's bad. We had scrapmaking discussion long time ago but we are kinda split about it.

I don't see any of these or other rules as silly or inefficient, moral or immoral. As each present a different set of circumstances for you to adapt to. As someone said this is "Strategy" game play. You adapt for each player, even jens.

What I do find inexcusable is one who makes or agrees to the rules and then readily breaks them.

Interesting tho with this generation of Battlezone gamers are their unique perceptions on this game. Killing a constructor for me was never an issue but I can't speak for others. I always found it better to permit the killing of the constructor, for a tactical reason, it simply let me know where my opponent was. 90% of the time this meant he was inside his fort. Knowing this it meant I was free to roam, unchallenged. Anyways, if I could beat him, what did it matter how much scrap he had? Even with his traveling the full length of the map with continual reinforcements, there was always time to rebuild and adjust accordingly to what I was being hit with. I guess what I'm saying is, with any rule or practice, there is both an equal advantage and disadvantage. Know the advantages.

Rec-Diving is a problem for those who set up forts, something of which I never used to do. Now that I'm a noob, I find it more plausible to do this as players now days prefer to kill the recycler as opposed to sparing it for a longer game. The simple answer here for those who are worried about this is to never set up static defenses, meaning towers and turrets. This is a waste of scrap in my opinion. Have tanks protect your recycler, you can always call them to follow you. This will prevent the early demise of your recycler. Also, do not for a moment believe your main piece in the game is your recycler, it's YOU, the second is your constructor, the 3rd being factory, then your recycler and then armory. The Armory is last because all your tanks come with weapons, upgrades are nice but not a necessity for most players.

Rushing... I had to laugh at this... Aren't there any old straters around to teach the ultimate lesson as to why you don't do this?
Here is a lesson plan for those who don't know...
- Spawn into game (meduim map)
- Grizzly Tank
- Set Recycler
- Build scavenger
- Build and set armory
- Drop Upgrades...
Depending on the map, you should have plenty of time unless he spawns and heads directly at you. Most wait till they get an upgrade before rushing. If not, then fight with what you have and use your already built equipment for protection as he wastes his ammo attacking you. Kill his tank and then immediately leave your base going to his. DO NOT KILL THE PLAYER, THIS DEFEATS THE PURPOSE. When you are approaching his side, start dropping a multitude of supplies, yes your upgrades too if you do not have them, drop plenty of ammo and hull supplies and start in on his Recycler... Again, unless they are on the master level, they will believe this to be an unrecoverable blow especially this early in the game. The game will be over in a matter of minutes.

Something to note, keep building scavengers while you are taunted by your enemy, but leave 12-15 scrap readily available for your use.

Re-entry into the game is not a problem, I don't see where it is. The only advantage is a fresh tank and recycler. If you killed them before, another time shouldn't make a difference. If it's a question of grey scrap, don't worry, they wont be able to see it. Only the currently playing members will me able to see it. As I don't agree with the use of grey scrap, it can serve a purpose under the right circumstances. i.e. letting someone build who came in late and you want to give a fighting chance.

Strategy isn't always about winning a game, it's about learning it. Hence my quote:
"It's not knowing how you play the game, it's knowing how the game is played."

There are no right or wrong rules in strategy, only rules violators of which you will need to adjust your game play accordingly.

I don't write rules to protect myself, I do it to protect the game.

Putting things into the most benign context and then commenting it, is to at least say, silly.

Being able to rejoin infinite times is not normal, so why say that it is, while thinking of Corner Pocket or any other situation with 2 players? Bad rejoiner I'm talking about is always the 3rd player and he's not there to try again, he's there to spoil the game.

Almost the same thing applies to scrapmaking (which is only a moral rule). If you are player #1, fighting player #2, on let's say Paranoia... knowing the position of a scrapmaker #3 doesn't mean a thing if he'll have 500 scrap after you finish with player #2. Especially if player #2 is going to leave before you collect his scrap and if he's going to rejoin to get you "back".

Spock, making a rule to punish the exception, not the rule isn't a fair rule. Granted there are a few who will repeatedly join in repeatedly, simply because they are out to get you, will always happen. To a degree this game can be held to a "Gentle mans" standard. Meaning, If you and I are playing and you eliminate me from the game. Upon my return, with 1 tank and a recycler, your abilities are infinitely better and should easily absorb what little impact I may be able to inflict. If the challenge is to great a risk, simply call a truce with the 3rd opponent, and settle up with the infectious player... If not, both of you find his spawn and offer in return what he is dishing out.

I am amazed at the spin off of the rules that used to ingrained into Battlezone players. As I am new, the philosophy of "When in Rome, do as Romans do." remains a must, or else I will die quickly and mercilessly.

I think the best measure would be to personally set rules agreed by the standard not the exception. Killing off these viral poor sportsman types is an easy task when everyone knows what it going on. I know that if a lame player was coming in just to kill you, over and over and over again, I'd be okay with a truce and more than willing to catch him spawning just to send him out of the game again.

Strategy player, often came together to resolve these issues in the past, which is what kept the lame play at bay. Maybe some old timers can offer up some guidance on handling these situations? When all your strategy players here implement good fair play rules, first agreeing here and then in a game abiding by them, offering them as guidelines, others will surely follow suit.

Again, lets not make rules to punish the norm, make them to punish the exceptions.

I believe that different opinions, in the end, lead to a better general conclusion, or in this case to a general rule.
But it seems you actually agree with me, so I don't see where's the problem. We both believe that constant rejoining is bad and that is why this rule was "born" in the games, and eventually posted here as a strat rule - to improve the gameplay.

Nobody would even blink when a noob rejoins, cause his intentions are (in most cases) sincere and he's not breaking any rule, but when a pro does it, as a part of a "payback", then rejoining becomes bad and the rule has been broken.
The goal of this rule is to cut off rejoining in the root. If old players don't obey it, how to expect anything different from a new players?

In normal occasion, it will happen exactly what you said; other players in the game will mutually keep slapping the rejoiner, until he gives up. The problem occurs when other player welcomes rejoiner, because he is not going after him. Then you can quit the game or start base-sitting. In either case the game you played till then is ruined and therefore the rule is needed.

I'm aware some will still ignore it, but at least it will differ the bad guys from the good guys. Even in the real world we have rules that are constantly being broken, and the bad guys who do the time for doing so. I know BZ is a war game and there are no rules in love or war, but this is not a gameplay rule, it actually happens outside of the game (the rejoining part). Besides, rules are needed in a civilized society (which BZ community on bz1.net tends to be). You are a cop, right? You should know that better than others.

One thing I do have to note is that when I was playing years ago, the pros never acted like this. There was no reason for such a rule. Those who did act like this were quickly eliminated from the map and no verbal truce was needed when pros played. IN a Gentleman's rule, we simply didn't attack or start a fight until our opponents were ready and tards were removed permanently.

Unfortunately, those players have left and the lamers have aspired to the higher level without any real challenge. After all, how good can anyone become when they cut corners, play lame, or cheat their way to a win?

I also noted my last post sounded a bit arrogant, it is not meant that way. Those who have aspired to the master level in this game, playing the game the right way, deserve their skillful credit and by no means am I going to take credit away from them.

I do look forward to getting my butt beat by them, it'll be fun!!!

I used to player back when bz first came out and occassionally for the past few years, but yesterday I (ShipWraith) was playing a 1on1 strat with furykiller - GG - and I was scrapmaking as it's called. But before any negative remarks, furykiller told me that the pros disliked the scrapmaking. He said that it is sort of like cheating. And I quit the scrapmaking for the rest of the game.

I say all that to ask one thing. Since you said earlier that many straters are accepting it more, is it a question that should be asked before beginning a game? Or saying here like you Spock, you won't allow it in your games?

I really do not care if people like it or not, but thinking about what furykiller said after our game and reading this topic, I decided to limit myself to the opponent rules not mine own - if he splitters, I will or scrapmaking, so will I. It will keep me on the safe side so to speak.

Good and fair enough.

glad to hear it was a GG chief:) yeah, thats pretty much the principle i follow on touchy subjects. cept even if my opponent scrapmakes, i wont still:P